Cacao Linux - GNUstep based Linux distribution

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Re: Cacao Linux - GNUstep based Linux distribution

Xavier Brochard
Le mercredi 24 octobre 2018, 13:53:52 CEST Liam Proven a écrit :

> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 00:47, Sergii Stoian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > And it is great. I have Ubuntu installed aside of CentOS on my laptop.
> > Sometimes Ubuntu losts WiFi, CentOS - never! I like it. I don't need to
> > spend days trying to understand why my application behaves wrong after
> > system package updates.
> Hmmmm. Interesting.
>
> To be fair, I hear things like this a lot from RH advocates.
> Personally, when I tried RH, both when I worked there and privately, I
> find it far less reliable than Ubuntu. Stuff doesn't work, needs
> manual tweaking, or needs 3rd party drivers which RH don't make
> available as they aren't FOSS.
>
> It's just one of those things. Factionalism, which always makes me sad.

RHEL, and thus Centos, is rock solid once configured. And supported for 15
years (yes, more than Windows). Sergii is right here, it is a great platfom
for developping and testing a desktop.
--
Librement,
Xavier Brochard
« La liberté est à l'homme ce que les ailes sont à l'oiseau »
(Jean-Pierre Rosnay)




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Re: Cacao Linux - GNUstep based Linux distribution

Sergii Stoian
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:54 PM Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 00:47, Sergii Stoian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can find answers at github page, section "Why am I doing this?". Essential point is a "...look, feel, and design principles of NeXTSTEP ".
> At past in this list I saw numerous discussions about "boring, gray, outdated GUI from 90th". I like it and don't want to waste my time for discussions.

OK.

Personally, I agree on both counts. I think NeXTstep was the
best-looking desktop UI ever created, and I don't want any form of
modernisation or change.

And I also think a rich, complete NeXT-like desktop for Linux is long
long overdue.
 
Agree.
[...]

I've edited out my other comments because they were all "OK" or "fair
enough". :-)

> IMHO GWorkspace is the file manager not the Workspace Manager. For example, docking applications to WindowMaker Dock with drag and drop from File Viewer is not possible in GWorkspace by design. There are many such little features (window and application management, focus switches) which seriously affects the overall feeling/UX of desktop.

Hmmm. All right.

>> I'm not trying to challenge you here but I do not really understand
>> what you are doing.
>
> Thank you. I really do understand what am I doing for about 3 years.

Heh. :-D I would hope so!

> I understand. Gregory has already replied me.

Aha! If it was offlist intentionally, then fine. If it was
accidentally -- very easy with this list -- then would you both be
willing to share it?
It's not offlist. His mail is in this thread.

> Ubuntu has it's own mature desktop. Why it should be replaced?

It has about 6!

Official default: GNOME 3
Optional: KDE, Maté, Xfce, LXDE, Budgie
Unofficial/3rd party: Cinnamon, Enlightenment, Pantheon, and more

So it's one of the most desktop-agnostic distros, along with Fedora.

They are almost all to some extent Windows-like desktops, though, or
things modified from Windows-like desktops.

Note these desktops are around GTK+ and Qt. I will think about GTK+/Qt application integration into NEXTSPACE (global menu, notifications, systray applets).

> And it is great. I have Ubuntu installed aside of CentOS on my laptop. Sometimes Ubuntu losts WiFi, CentOS - never! I like it.
> I don't need to spend days trying to understand why my application behaves wrong after system package updates.

Hmmmm. Interesting.

To be fair, I hear things like this a lot from RH advocates.
Personally, when I tried RH, both when I worked there and privately, I
find it far less reliable than Ubuntu. Stuff doesn't work, needs
manual tweaking, or needs 3rd party drivers which RH don't make
available as they aren't FOSS.

Yes, vanilla repositories lack some drivers and some software... But there are some repositories with good quality. One of them is EPEL - backport of Fedora applications to CentOS/RHEL.
It's just one of those things. Factionalism, which always makes me sad.

> I think the user shouldn't know what's inside your working environment: Cocoa or GNUstep, Linux, Mach or BSD.
> As many users of NeXTSTEP just use it's applications without knowing version of the Mach kernel. ;)

If you include Mac OS X users in that, then yes, I see what you mean.

Sadly the Linux world is not like that -- except perhaps for Android
and ChromeOS.

I know users which use Ubuntu. They know word "Ubuntu" because it's on boot screen.
> Because it lets me do my work. And plenty of 3rd party applications works and supported here (Maya, Davinci Resolve, VirtualBox to name a few).

OK.

> For example: I switch NEXTSPACE development from FreeBSD to CentOS 7. At that time CentOS already has systemd, Ubuntu has upstart. Now it's mainstream.
> Firefox version is 60.2.2 ESR. What fast-movement do you need?

Hmmm. Perhaps I need to try CentOS 7 again. The last time I looked, it
contained very old versions of things.

> Personally, I really tired of fast movement from GNOME 2 to Unity, from Unity to GNOME 3 in Ubuntu.

I think that is unfair.

In its 14 years, Ubuntu switched desktops twice. One to Unity, because
its efforts to participate in GNOME 3 development were rebuffed,
rudely refused.

I supported this. I find the GNOME community hard to interact with and
I strongly dislike GNOME 3 myself.

And then, 5y later, after a HackerNews discussion, it killed off its
own desktop and went back to GNOME 3.

This saddened me and I may yet stop using Ubuntu because of it, but it
was a pragmatic decision, sadly.

Frankly speaking Ubuntu 16.04 LTS is quite good.
>  You can install it right now: https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/wiki/Build-and-install.

I had a look. To be honest, it looks considerably more complex than I
am comfortable with.

ISO files are where I am at. Give me an ISO and I will try it. :-D

Wait for release then... ;)
> As for me, Etoilé is great playground for conceptual architectural masterpieces without really useful working desktop.

It may be. They never released a working ISO, as far as I know, and
for a lot of people, myself included, if the instructions start with
"get the source here" then we just stop.


> My intention more pragmatic: make comfort, fast and useful desktop environment even in the sake of code beauty. ;)
> And I want it to be less featured by more polished in terms of UI/UX and stability. :)

Laudable aims. Good luck!

Thank you.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: [hidden email] - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: [hidden email]
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053


--
Sergii Stoian, ProjectCenter maintainer

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Re: Cacao Linux - GNUstep based Linux distribution

Sergii Stoian
In reply to this post by Xavier Brochard
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 6:30 PM Xavier Brochard <[hidden email]> wrote:
Le mercredi 24 octobre 2018, 13:53:52 CEST Liam Proven a écrit :
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 00:47, Sergii Stoian <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > And it is great. I have Ubuntu installed aside of CentOS on my laptop.
> > Sometimes Ubuntu losts WiFi, CentOS - never! I like it. I don't need to
> > spend days trying to understand why my application behaves wrong after
> > system package updates.
> Hmmmm. Interesting.
>
> To be fair, I hear things like this a lot from RH advocates.
> Personally, when I tried RH, both when I worked there and privately, I
> find it far less reliable than Ubuntu. Stuff doesn't work, needs
> manual tweaking, or needs 3rd party drivers which RH don't make
> available as they aren't FOSS.
>
> It's just one of those things. Factionalism, which always makes me sad.

RHEL, and thus Centos, is rock solid once configured. And supported for 15
years (yes, more than Windows). Sergii is right here, it is a great platfom
for developping and testing a desktop.
True. With NEXTSPACE I want to create tools for users to make configuration changes.
--
Librement,
Xavier Brochard
« La liberté est à l'homme ce que les ailes sont à l'oiseau »
(Jean-Pierre Rosnay)

_______________________________________________
Discuss-gnustep mailing list
[hidden email]
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--
Sergii Stoian, ProjectCenter maintainer

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