GWorkspace : mounting removable devices

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GWorkspace : mounting removable devices

Patrick Cardona-2
Hi Riccardo,

Searching on the list archive about mounting removable devices, I
realized that I never answered back your last messages about mounting
removable devices within GWorkspace.

See :
https://www.mail-archive.com/discuss-gnustep@.../msg22866.html

Well, I try to sumarize the state of mounting on a GNU/Linux system
(i.e. actually Raspbian 10.4)
GWorkspace is 0.9.4 (07 2016 build) : are the mentionned patches
applied on this version ?

My tests :

1) Configuration
As You suggested, I am now using System Preferences mount panel and
because the usb stick is named CLEPAT,
I added this line : "/media/pi/CLEPAT" in the "mount points for
removable media".

2) I plugged the usb stick
Nothing automated.
Trying : #E from GWorkspace menu:
- Lightning on the stick briefly, but No icon was shown on the desktop

3) Using Hide/Show Desktop :
Nothing happened: I mean No icon was shown on the desktop

4) So I mounted this usb stick in a Terminal window in my userspace :
udisksctl mount -b ${BLOCK}${PARTITION}
Where :
BLOCK=/dev/sdb
PARTITION=1
Nothing happened : I mean No icon was shown on the desktop

5) Using Hide/Show Desktop again :
This time an icon was shown in the right top corner :
- name : CLEPAT (i.e. the usb stick label)
- icon type : a folder (not a drive)

6) Umounting this folder with #d ? I did not try this yet because I
had real data on it...

7) Exiting GWorkspace and running it again...
The icon on the right corner has been updated : it was now a hard
drive icon...
Curious. Why not the first time ?

8) Making a backup of the data with StepSync...
And then I tried umounting the NextStep way :
a) DND of the drive icon on the Trash icon... : the cursor became in
the "prohibited" state and nothing happened.
b) Selecting the drive icon on the Destop and then #d : the icon was
removed and obviously the stick was shutdown.

9) Plugged the usb stick again...
#E... Nothing...
Steps 4-5 again
Integrity of data on the usb stick : OK.
Icon selected and then #d : umounting and shutting down OK.

Is this behaviour as You expected ?

Regards

--
Bien cordialement,
Patrick CARDONA


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Re: GWorkspace : mounting removable devices

GNUstep - General mailing list
Hi Riccardo and All,

I thought that the patches You told about removable devices were
avaible yet within the recent release of GWorkspace.
So I tried and achieved  to compile  GWorkspace apps from the Github
repository :
After './configure' and 'make', all succeeded fine.

Well, but before a 'make install' in my user domain, I stopped and
wonder what would happen with the existing GWorkspace apps already
there in the system domain : maybe a conflict due to duplicate apps...
So I tried to uninstall first the oldest GWorkspace from the domain
system, but due to the debian dependencies, I saw that this would
remove all the gnustep core ans apps... Bad feeling about that...

So I renounced to uninstall...
I prefer ask You before doing some big mistake, what is the right way
to do it if I want the  latest GWorkspace ?

Regards,

--
Bien cordialement,
Patrick CARDONA
Raspbian Buster 10.4

On 2020-06-02 19:34:42 +0200 Patrick Cardona <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Riccardo,
>
> Searching on the list archive about mounting removable devices, I
> realized
> that I never answered back your last messages about mounting
> removable
> devices within GWorkspace.
>
> See :
> https://www.mail-archive.com/discuss-gnustep@.../msg22866.html
>
> Well, I try to sumarize the state of mounting on a GNU/Linux system
> (i.e.
> actually Raspbian 10.4)
> GWorkspace is 0.9.4 (07 2016 build) : are the mentionned patches
> applied on
> this version ?
>
> My tests :
>
> 1) Configuration
> As You suggested, I am now using System Preferences mount panel and
> because
> the usb stick is named CLEPAT,
> I added this line : "/media/pi/CLEPAT" in the "mount points for
> removable
> media".
>
> 2) I plugged the usb stick
> Nothing automated.
> Trying : #E from GWorkspace menu:
> - Lightning on the stick briefly, but No icon was shown on the desktop
>
> 3) Using Hide/Show Desktop :
> Nothing happened: I mean No icon was shown on the desktop
>
> 4) So I mounted this usb stick in a Terminal window in my userspace :
> udisksctl mount -b ${BLOCK}${PARTITION}
> Where :
> BLOCK=/dev/sdb
> PARTITION=1
> Nothing happened : I mean No icon was shown on the desktop
>
> 5) Using Hide/Show Desktop again :
> This time an icon was shown in the right top corner :
> - name : CLEPAT (i.e. the usb stick label)
> - icon type : a folder (not a drive)
>
> 6) Umounting this folder with #d ? I did not try this yet because I
> had real
> data on it...
>
> 7) Exiting GWorkspace and running it again...
> The icon on the right corner has been updated : it was now a hard
> drive
> icon...
> Curious. Why not the first time ?
>
> 8) Making a backup of the data with StepSync...
> And then I tried umounting the NextStep way :
> a) DND of the drive icon on the Trash icon... : the cursor became in
> the
> "prohibited" state and nothing happened.
> b) Selecting the drive icon on the Destop and then #d : the icon was
> removed
> and obviously the stick was shutdown.
>
> 9) Plugged the usb stick again...
> #E... Nothing...
> Steps 4-5 again
> Integrity of data on the usb stick : OK.
> Icon selected and then #d : umounting and shutting down OK.
>
> Is this behaviour as You expected ?
>
> Regards
>


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Re: GWorkspace : mounting removable devices

GNUstep - General mailing list
Hi Riccardo,
Hi All,

Well, finally I tried 'make install' in the Userspace domain to see if the patch about 'removable devices' was applied and what it did really. I also tried to see if the new behaviour was as expected from the OpenStep Desktop User Experience, according to the guide 'Using the OpenStep Desktop, Sept. 1996, Chap. 8, Working with Disks', as I could understand it, which was mainly about floppy disks and CD-ROM at this time, but also 'any other removable disk' (as said in chap. 8.11).

The behaviours expected could be enumerated like this :
(1) Ater a new disk is inserted, it can be mounted by the user from a menu item from the 'Disk' menu of the Workspace  (i.e. now the menu 'Tools' in GWorkspace).
(2) After a disk/removable device has been mounted, it should be shown with a specific icon (not a folder one) on the shelf and from there, opened in a file view window...
(3) The user should be able then to unmount the device from the root filesystem, choosing an appropriate item in the 'Disk' menu again ('Tools' menu within GWorkspace).

(4) A variant should consist of using the 'Save Dialog' in which window two icons 'mount/unmount' are available to do so, not only with floppy disk, as the icons might suggest, but with any removable device. In this case, if many devices were mounted, the first button (mount) should mount those devices one after another, and the 'unmount' button should eject those in the same order.

So I closed GWorkspace from the System domain and launched the one I just made from source and installed in my User Domain...

 openapp ~/GNUstep/Applications/GWorkspace.app
2020-06-10 17:02:20.197 GWorkspace[9199:9199] styleoffsets ... guessing offsets
2020-06-10 17:02:20.217 GWorkspace[9199:9199] styleoffsets ... guessing offsets
2020-06-10 17:02:23.234 GWorkspace[9199:9199] duplicate module "Rôle" at /usr/lib/GNUstep/Bundles/Role.extinfo
2020-06-10 17:02:26.405 fswatcher[9266:9266] register client 2
2020-06-10 17:02:35.491 GWorkspace[9199:9199] Lost information converting decoded value to int32_t
(...)
2020-06-10 17:02:36.410 ddbd[9267:9267] ddbd started

As You can see, duplicate conflict was minor, thought I don't know exactly about Role.extinfo and the severity of this warning.

And I began my test about removable devices.

A) First test : with a disk already registered in the list of 'mount points for removable media'  in the System Preferences...

(1) After inserting the USB drive, the 'Tools'/#E menu was not able to mount the disk on the filesystem, even if the mount point was registered in the System Preferences.
So I mounted this device as usual from a command line in the Terminal, i.e. udisksctl.

(2) After the device has been mounted, I chose from the menu 'Tools' : #E to verify the disks, and as expected, a disk icon (not a folder one) was shown on the top right of the Desktop.
My thoughts :
(a) I wonder why the disk icon was not shown on the shelf as the Workspace did within OpenStep. What is preventing GWorkspace to do it the same ?
(b) Obviously, the patch was applied, though the version number and the build were the same as the app I used from the system Domain (9.0.4, build at 07/2016)

(3) Unmounting
I made some stuff within that mounted drive and then tried to unmount it :
- Unlike the specs from the OpenStep Workspace, there was no item to do this in the 'Tools' menu, which is supposed to replace now the  'Disk' menu. So I considered these alternatives :

(a) Dragging the icon onto the Recycler icon... Which failed : though I used to do so with some CD-ROM on MacOS X, I did not found this described as a spec in the mentioned OpenStep guide.

2020-06-10 17:14:45.524 GWorkspace[9199:9199] eject failed

(b) Selecting the icon and then typing #d, which was successful :

2020-06-10 17:14:45.916 GWorkspace[9199:9199] removing: /media/pi/CLEPAT

B) Second test : with another disk, not yet registered in the list of 'mount points...' in the System Preferences

(1) Mounting
Same as the previous device : I had to mount it with a command line in the Terminal (udisksctl).

(2) Curiously, afer mounting this device, I could see it directly on the Desktop without the need to choose the 'Tools' / #E menu... So, it seemed that the registered mount point was not useful neither required with a new device... And maybe, in this case, a kind of 'auto-showing' was made.

2020-06-10 17:51:10.383 GWorkspace[9199:9199] new volume: /media/pi/TRAVAIL

(3) Unmounting
To eject this device, it was the same as the previous test...

C) Testing with a Save Dialog window (part 4 of the expected behaviour)

(1) Using the device known as CLEPAT (mount point registered in the System Preferences)
and after it has been inserted... but not yet mounted in a Terminal...

Pressing the button "mount" : I got this error message :
mount: /media/pi/CLEPAT: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type (i.e: there is not any file or any folder of that kind)

I noticed something interesting : that is the action of the button was the standard UNIX 'mount' command, not the new userspace command  'udisksctl' used now in the recent GNU/Linux systems. This may be a clue : because GWorkspace calls 'mount' (which needs root privileges), it could explain why the actions : #E from the 'Tools' menu and from the 'mount'  button in the Save Dialog are always failing to do the effective mounting.

So, what we can learn from this test from the user point of view ?
- GWorkspace seems to use the UNIX standard commands : mount / eject
and maybe this cannot be changed due to the other systems like BSD.
- How to take in account GNU/Linux systems where users are using now the udisksctl which is a frontend command for the user level ?
- How to make the user experience more OpenStep like : f.e. device icon on the Shelf, and maybe a Disk submenu ?

The patch applied is solving one problem : it is not necessary with it to use the tip 'hide/show again the Desktop' to show the icon of a mounted device, but the mounting process itself and the User Experience are not yet optimal.

Hope these tests could help to improve.

Regards



--
Bien cordialement,
Patrick CARDONA
On 2020-06-05 20:33:06 +0200 Patrick Cardona via Discussion list for the GNUstep programming environment <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Riccardo and All,
>
> I thought that the patches You told about removable devices were avaible yet
> within the recent release of GWorkspace.
> So I tried and achieved  to compile  GWorkspace apps from the Github
> repository :
> After './configure' and 'make', all succeeded fine.
>
> Well, but before a 'make install' in my user domain, I stopped and wonder
> what would happen with the existing GWorkspace apps already there in the
> system domain : maybe a conflict due to duplicate apps...
> So I tried to uninstall first the oldest GWorkspace from the domain system,
> but due to the debian dependencies, I saw that this would remove all the
> gnustep core ans apps... Bad feeling about that...
>
> So I renounced to uninstall...
> I prefer ask You before doing some big mistake, what is the right way to do
> it if I want the  latest GWorkspace ?
>
> Regards,
>


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Re: GWorkspace : mounting removable devices

Riccardo Mottola-5
In reply to this post by Patrick Cardona-2
Hi,

On 02/06/2020 19:34, Patrick Cardona wrote:
>
> Well, I try to sumarize the state of mounting on a GNU/Linux system
> (i.e. actually Raspbian 10.4)
> GWorkspace is 0.9.4 (07 2016 build) : are the mentionned patches
> applied on this version ?


I fear I never released something newer. Great part of the fixes however
was not in GWorkspace itself, but in gnustep-base.

My commits in GWorkspace are of 1 Aug 2018 regarding those issues.

Are you using latest gnustep-base release?


>
> My tests :
>
> 1) Configuration
> As You suggested, I am now using System Preferences mount panel and
> because the usb stick is named CLEPAT,
> I added this line : "/media/pi/CLEPAT" in the "mount points for
> removable media".


That is correct. Actually most of this information should come from
/etc/mtab


>
> 2) I plugged the usb stick
> Nothing automated.
> Trying : #E from GWorkspace menu:
> - Lightning on the stick briefly, but No icon was shown on the desktop
>
> 3) Using Hide/Show Desktop :
> Nothing happened: I mean No icon was shown on the desktop
>
> 4) So I mounted this usb stick in a Terminal window in my userspace :
> udisksctl mount -b ${BLOCK}${PARTITION}
> Where :
> BLOCK=/dev/sdb
> PARTITION=1
> Nothing happened : I mean No icon was shown on the desktop
>
> 5) Using Hide/Show Desktop again :
> This time an icon was shown in the right top corner :
> - name : CLEPAT (i.e. the usb stick label)
> - icon type : a folder (not a drive)
>
> 6) Umounting this folder with #d ? I did not try this yet because I
> had real data on it...
>
> 7) Exiting GWorkspace and running it again...
> The icon on the right corner has been updated : it was now a hard
> drive icon...
> Curious. Why not the first time ?


Sometimes the incorrect icon is shown for me, but it should work.

I tested on x86 and it works much better for me.

If I have user right to mount the volume (e.g. I can mount it in
terminal without sudo) then inserting the USB stick and "check disk"
will mount it.

However in any case, both if I have the rights as user and if not, if I
mound it in Terminal (possibly with console) I see it popping on the
desktop (or, at worse, a check disk is needed)


>
> 8) Making a backup of the data with StepSync...
> And then I tried umounting the NextStep way :
> a) DND of the drive icon on the Trash icon... : the cursor became in
> the "prohibited" state and nothing happened.
> b) Selecting the drive icon on the Destop and then #d : the icon was
> removed and obviously the stick was shutdown.


Nice that you use StepSync, I am working on a nice, hefty update full of
features and fixes.

What you describe is strange Does it make any difference using the
Trashcan of WindowMaker's dock or GWorkspace's Dock? not that it should....


>
> 9) Plugged the usb stick again...
> #E... Nothing...
> Steps 4-5 again
> Integrity of data on the usb stick : OK.
> Icon selected and then #d : umounting and shutting down OK.
>
> Is this behaviour as You expected ?


No. For me it works much better (but I am using GIT base and GWorkspace).


I would love to try on Raspbian, I used to test it too. I booted my
Raspberry PI 1 but it is running an old version of debian and I cannot
update, I get a mirror issue for debian jessie and even worseif I try a
jump to buster. the download of apt sources fails on one... and the
stupid thin, it is not an entry I see in sources.list

I fear it is downloading the list of the "old" vesion installed and
fails. No clue, but I'd prefer an upgrade to a backup & fresh install of
course!


Riccardo


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Re: GWorkspace : mounting removable devices

GNUstep - General mailing list
Hi Riccardo,

--
Bien cordialement,
Patrick CARDONA
On 2020-06-11 00:47:19 +0200 Riccardo Mottola <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 02/06/2020 19:34, Patrick Cardona wrote:
>
>> Well, I try to sumarize the state of mounting on a GNU/Linux system (i.e.
>> actually Raspbian 10.4)
>> GWorkspace is 0.9.4 (07 2016 build) : are the mentionned patches applied on
>> this version ?
>
>
> I fear I never released something newer. Great part of the fixes however was
> not in GWorkspace itself, but in gnustep-base.
>
> My commits in GWorkspace are of 1 Aug 2018 regarding those issues.
>
> Are you using latest gnustep-base release?

This my version of GNustep-base on raspbian Buster (10.4) :

gnustep-base-runtime/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé, automatique]
  GNUstep Base library - daemons and tools

libgnustep-base-dev/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé, automatique]
  GNUstep Base header files and development libraries

libgnustep-base1.26/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé, automatique]
  GNUstep Base library

>
>
>
>> My tests :
>
>> 1) Configuration
>> As You suggested, I am now using System Preferences mount panel and because
>> the usb stick is named CLEPAT,
>> I added this line : "/media/pi/CLEPAT" in the "mount points for removable
>> media".
>
>
> That is correct. Actually most of this information should come from /etc/mtab
>
>
>
>> 2) I plugged the usb stick
>> Nothing automated.
>> Trying : #E from GWorkspace menu:
>> - Lightning on the stick briefly, but No icon was shown on the desktop
>
>> 3) Using Hide/Show Desktop :
>> Nothing happened: I mean No icon was shown on the desktop
>
>> 4) So I mounted this usb stick in a Terminal window in my userspace :
>> udisksctl mount -b ${BLOCK}${PARTITION}
>> Where :
>> BLOCK=/dev/sdb
>> PARTITION=1
>> Nothing happened : I mean No icon was shown on the desktop
>
>> 5) Using Hide/Show Desktop again :
>> This time an icon was shown in the right top corner :
>> - name : CLEPAT (i.e. the usb stick label)
>> - icon type : a folder (not a drive)
>
>> 6) Umounting this folder with #d ? I did not try this yet because I had
>> real data on it...
>
>> 7) Exiting GWorkspace and running it again...
>> The icon on the right corner has been updated : it was now a hard drive
>> icon...
>> Curious. Why not the first time ?
>
>
> Sometimes the incorrect icon is shown for me, but it should work.
>
> I tested on x86 and it works much better for me.
>
> If I have user right to mount the volume (e.g. I can mount it in terminal
> without sudo) then inserting the USB stick and "check disk" will mount it.
>
> However in any case, both if I have the rights as user and if not, if I mound
> it in Terminal (possibly with console) I see it popping on the desktop (or,
> at worse, a check disk is needed)
>
>
>
>> 8) Making a backup of the data with StepSync...
>> And then I tried umounting the NextStep way :
>> a) DND of the drive icon on the Trash icon... : the cursor became in the
>> "prohibited" state and nothing happened.
>> b) Selecting the drive icon on the Destop and then #d : the icon was
>> removed and obviously the stick was shutdown.
>
>
> Nice that you use StepSync, I am working on a nice, hefty update full of
> features and fixes.
Good news !

>
> What you describe is strange Does it make any difference using the Trashcan
> of WindowMaker's dock or GWorkspace's Dock? not that it should....
I hide the WindowMaker's dock and only use the GWorkspace's one. I think it is more visually consistent.


>
>
>
>> 9) Plugged the usb stick again...
>> #E... Nothing...
>> Steps 4-5 again
>> Integrity of data on the usb stick : OK.
>> Icon selected and then #d : umounting and shutting down OK.
>
>> Is this behaviour as You expected ?
>
>
> No. For me it works much better (but I am using GIT base and GWorkspace).
>
>
> I would love to try on Raspbian, I used to test it too. I booted my Raspberry
> PI 1 but it is running an old version of debian and I cannot update, I get a
> mirror issue for debian jessie and even worseif I try a jump to buster. the
> download of apt sources fails on one... and the stupid thin, it is not an
> entry I see in sources.list
>
> I fear it is downloading the list of the "old" vesion installed and fails. No
> clue, but I'd prefer an upgrade to a backup & fresh install of course!
>
>
> Riccardo
>
>


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Re: GWorkspace : mounting removable devices

Riccardo Mottola-5
Hi

On 11/06/2020 20:20, Patrick Cardona via Discussion list for the GNUstep
programming environment wrote:

> This my version of GNustep-base on raspbian Buster (10.4) :
>
> gnustep-base-runtime/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé, automatique]
>    GNUstep Base library - daemons and tools
>
> libgnustep-base-dev/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé, automatique]
>    GNUstep Base header files and development libraries
>
> libgnustep-base1.26/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé, automatique]
>    GNUstep Base library


That version should have the necessary fixes, which were made in 2018...
I am puzzled. SO if you are positive running a self-compiled GWorkspace
from GIT then you should be fine.

The situation with mount mounts is a little bit more complex and
GWorkspace tries to be smart with it. It is a little bit more complex
than what was on OpenStep perhaps and it tries to get along with
different mounting systems.


The "Classic" way is easy as follows:

- you have in /etc/fstab an entry of mount points of your interest

- if you have user permission to mount them (mount is not only for
superuser! it depends on the permission of the device node and mount
point, often you need to belong to specific groups to be able to do it.
e.g. cdrom, floppy, disk...)

- check disk will "mount it" by issuing the mount command

- to unmount it, you trash it to the bin

- to help along, you can configure with SystemPreference mount points to
be checked and considered


However, it may happen (as you are doing) that you mount something with
a console command or an automount daemon, it can be even done with
another user.

GWorkspace sometimes detects the mount automatically (thanks to
fswatcher) and if not "Check disks" should find it, even if it does not
need to mount it, since it is already there.

You still can attempt to unmount such a volume, but if it was not done
with your user, you cannot unmount it.


So... this is the general scenario, the details are a little bit tricky.


Riccardo


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Re: GWorkspace : mounting removable devices [RESOLVED]

GNUstep - General mailing list
Hi Riccardo,

Finally, I got the removable devices with the expected behaviour.
To solve my issue, I needed to avoid the user CLI command udisksctl with the folder /media/pi/clepat

I had to use correct /etc/fstab options, i.e: 'users', not 'user', to be allowed to unmount the media and also I created the target folder /mnt/clepat...

In /etc/fstab, I added this line :

UUID=5B74-A562 /mnt/clepat vfat rw,users,noauto,uid=pi,gid=pi 0

And in the 'SystemPreferences / Volumes', I added this line in the list of the 'mount points for removable media' :

'/mnt/clepat'

Now, behalf this appropriate setup, I can :

1- Mount the device by hand and see the drive icon on the Desktop when I use the #E command (Tools menu of GWorkspace).
2- I can unmount this media by dragging its icon onto the Recycler icon on the Dock.

I did the same with another media, and I was able to mount many devices and remove them as well.

So it is now the behaviour You described...

Regards,


On 2020-06-12 01:40:34 +0200 Riccardo Mottola <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi
>
> On 11/06/2020 20:20, Patrick Cardona via Discussion list for the GNUstep
> programming environment wrote:
>> This my version of GNustep-base on raspbian Buster (10.4) :
>
>> gnustep-base-runtime/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé,
>> automatique]
>>     GNUstep Base library - daemons and tools
>
>> libgnustep-base-dev/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé,
>> automatique]
>>     GNUstep Base header files and development libraries
>
>> libgnustep-base1.26/stable,now 1.26.0-4+deb10u1 armhf  [installé,
>> automatique]
>>     GNUstep Base library
>
>
> That version should have the necessary fixes, which were made in 2018... I am
> puzzled. SO if you are positive running a self-compiled GWorkspace from GIT
> then you should be fine.
>
> The situation with mount mounts is a little bit more complex and GWorkspace
> tries to be smart with it. It is a little bit more complex than what was on
> OpenStep perhaps and it tries to get along with different mounting systems.
>
>
> The "Classic" way is easy as follows:
>
> - you have in /etc/fstab an entry of mount points of your interest
>
> - if you have user permission to mount them (mount is not only for superuser!
> it depends on the permission of the device node and mount point, often you
> need to belong to specific groups to be able to do it. e.g. cdrom, floppy,
> disk...)

The 'users' option did it.

>
> - check disk will "mount it" by issuing the mount command
>
> - to unmount it, you trash it to the bin

It is working now as expected.

>
> - to help along, you can configure with SystemPreference mount points to be
> checked and considered
>
>
> However, it may happen (as you are doing) that you mount something with a
> console command or an automount daemon, it can be even done with another
> user.
>
> GWorkspace sometimes detects the mount automatically (thanks to fswatcher)
> and if not "Check disks" should find it, even if it does not need to mount
> it, since it is already there.
>
> You still can attempt to unmount such a volume, but if it was not done with
> your user, you cannot unmount it.

Again, the 'users' option is the answer. ;-)

>
>
> So... this is the general scenario, the details are a little bit tricky.
>
>
> Riccardo
>
>

Regards,

--
Bien cordialement,
Patrick CARDONA