Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

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Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Patrick
Hi All,

I tried to migrate from Ubuntu to a fresh Debian Stretch Install,
which seems to be more reactive on the same computer (old macmini).
One aspect of the method was to backup my $HOME/GNUstep and things
seemed to go as well I should expect.

But I encounter some curious behaviours:
- In GNUMail, the Inbox window is blank : the list of messages is not
displayed (see screeshot).
- In GWorkspace, #-key (Meta or Alt) commands do not work : #-d will
not put the file in the Recycler Trash directory.

What is wrong ? How to get again a right behaviour ?

Bye!
Patrick

<capture-lundi230718-203815.png>

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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Yavor Doganov-3
В Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:53:16 +0200, Patrick CARDONA написа:

> I tried to migrate from Ubuntu to a fresh Debian Stretch Install, which
> seems to be more reactive on the same computer (old macmini).

This is a "downgrade" in terms of package versions.

> But I encounter some curious behaviours:
> - In GNUMail, the Inbox window is blank : the list of messages is not
> displayed (see screeshot).

GNUMail in Debian stretch has some subtle bugs, the version in unstable
is buggy too.  You can try removing the cache (should be in ~/GNUstep/
Library/GNUMail) and see if the problem persists.  Please also run the
app from a terminal; some messages may provide a clue.

> - In GWorkspace, #-key (Meta or Alt) commands do not work : #-d will not
> put the file in the Recycler Trash directory.

I'm afraid I can't reproduce this.  What window manager do you use?


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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Yavor Doganov-3
В Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:34:28 +0000, Yavor Doganov написа:
> В Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:53:16 +0200, Patrick CARDONA написа:
>> - In GWorkspace, #-key (Meta or Alt) commands do not work : #-d will
>> not put the file in the Recycler Trash directory.
>
> I'm afraid I can't reproduce this.  What window manager do you use?

Sorry, that was a stupid question; I should have taken a look at the
screenshot.  It looks like Window Maker with Gworkspace providing the
Dock, right?  I still can't reproduce, though.

Some window managers intercept (steal) key modifiers so that's why I
thought it might be related.

As a general note when downgrading -- it is not guaranteed to work.  Some
defaults may have no effect (e.g., they were only applicable for the
higher version of the app you used); others may be of different type than
the app expects which usually would lead to raising an exception or at
least some unexpected behavior.  OTOH, some apps may store data in a
format that is not backwards-compatible with the format that the old
version of the app understands/implements.  This is not limited to
GNUstep, most software is not downward-compatible and that is
understandable.

I suggest that you try to reproduce your bugs without your old ~/GNUstep
directory from the Ubuntu machine/installation.  Then, if the bugs are
not there, you can gradually move your old ~/GNUstep contents (defaults
and data separately) so that you can narrow down the problem.


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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Patrick
In reply to this post by Yavor Doganov-3
On 2018-07-23 21:34:28 +0200 Yavor Doganov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> В Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:53:16 +0200, Patrick CARDONA написа:
>
>> I tried to migrate from Ubuntu to a fresh Debian Stretch Install, which
>> seems to be more reactive on the same computer (old macmini).
>
> This is a "downgrade" in terms of package versions.
>
>> But I encounter some curious behaviours:
>> - In GNUMail, the Inbox window is blank : the list of messages is not
>> displayed (see screeshot).
>
> GNUMail in Debian stretch has some subtle bugs, the version in unstable is
> buggy too.  You can try removing the cache (should be in ~/GNUstep/
> Library/GNUMail) and see if the problem persists.  Please also run the app
> from a terminal; some messages may provide a clue.
>
>> - In GWorkspace, #-key (Meta or Alt) commands do not work : #-d will not
>> put the file in the Recycler Trash directory.
>
> I'm afraid I can't reproduce this.  What window manager do you use?
>
>

Hi Yavor,

Thanks for your attention.

I started from a clean GNUstep folder, and things went better, as expected :
- Alt/Meta Keys work again.
- GNUMail is now OK - only freeze when I use the scrollbar at the right of the Inbox window.
After that, I could copy some Library folders to get back datas : for SimpleAgenda, and so on... Theming and things seem to be as I should expect now.

As You told me about I could meet some downgrade behaviour due to older versions, do You think I should add Backports repositories in my /etc/apt/sources.list ?
Do You thing also Testing is stable enought with GNUstep software ?
I thought - and obviously I was wrong - that Debian was more up to date than Ubuntu. Maybe the testing ?

I did a great mistake installing with EFI mode, not BIOS compatible mode, so I got the well known bug of the dark screen at startup - it is erratic - and so I need to do a cleaner install and it would be better to make good choices at the beginning this time.
Also, I would like to deal with a lighter install process : no Gnome desktop (no Desktop tasksel), just the basic X server, wmaker and GNUstep apps with a few other (firefox, and so on...) which I did wrappers.
I am preparing the reinstall with a set of bash scripts to automate the process : prepare, backup, reinstall and personnalize...
Maybe I should not backup the GNUstep directory ? Maybe, if I install on Debian again, it is not a matter...

But I need first to understand how the things could work this way. For example, when I use the dockapp wmudmount to mount my USB external drive, the disk icon do not show up on the desktop. I need to refresh ("Tools/Hide desktop" then "Tools/Show desktop") to see this icon on the desktop of the workspace. Maybe I am missing something in my wmaker autostart, maybe it is the defaults with Volume in SystemPreferences.app ? And so good tips would be great for me to start a fresh install with better basis.

Bye !
Patrick


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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Yavor Doganov-3
В Tue, 24 Jul 2018 18:43:24 +0200, Patrick CARDONA написа:

> I started from a clean GNUstep folder, and things went better, as
> expected :
> - Alt/Meta Keys work again.

So it was due to some default that you have set in your Ubuntu
environment.

> As You told me about I could meet some downgrade behaviour due to older
> versions, do You think I should add Backports repositories in my
> /etc/apt/sources.list ?

No; there are no backports of GNUstep packages.  We never had requests
from users for backports and they wouldn't be possible in many cases
due to new versions of the libraries that are not available in stable.
That's certainly true for GNUMail's newest release which requires
Pantomime 1.3.0 and that's not available even in unstable (it's been
in the NEW queue[0] for a month, waiting for ftpmasters' approval).

[0] https://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html

> Do You thing also Testing is stable enought with GNUstep software ?

Well, it depends on your usage pattern and priorities.  Using testing
is perfectly fine in many scenarios.  Should you decide to switch to
testing, please note that upgrading is not guaranteed to work, it's
safer to use the weekly images [1].

[1] https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/

> I thought - and obviously I was wrong - that Debian was more up to
> date than Ubuntu.

Debian is more up to date than Ubuntu, that's right (with some
exceptions when Ubuntu do some library transitions in advance).  But
you switched from Ubuntu's last stable release to Debian's last stable
release and they are never in sync.  Stretch was released more than a
year ago so it's natural that the software is older.

> Also, I would like to deal with a lighter install process : no Gnome
> desktop (no Desktop tasksel), just the basic X server, wmaker and
> GNUstep apps with a few other (firefox, and so on...) which I did
> wrappers.

This should be easily doable if you select Expert mode in the Debian
Installer.

> Maybe I should not backup the GNUstep directory ? Maybe, if I install on
> Debian again, it is not a matter...

If you install Debian testing, there shouldn't be discrepancies
because the package versions are (almost) the same in Bionic.  So it's
likely to work.

> But I need first to understand how the things could work this way. For
> example, when I use the dockapp wmudmount to mount my USB external
> drive, the disk icon do not show up on the desktop.

There is no such package, perhaps it was a typo?

> I need to refresh ("Tools/Hide desktop" then "Tools/Show desktop")
> to see this icon on the desktop of the workspace.

This is probably a GWorkspace bug, could be fixed.


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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Patrick
On 2018-07-24 19:48:14 +0200 Yavor Doganov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> В Tue, 24 Jul 2018 18:43:24 +0200, Patrick CARDONA написа:
>
>> I started from a clean GNUstep folder, and things went better, as
>> expected :
>> - Alt/Meta Keys work again.
>
> So it was due to some default that you have set in your Ubuntu
> environment.
>
>> As You told me about I could meet some downgrade behaviour due to older
>> versions, do You think I should add Backports repositories in my
>> /etc/apt/sources.list ?
>
> No; there are no backports of GNUstep packages.  We never had requests
> from users for backports and they wouldn't be possible in many cases
> due to new versions of the libraries that are not available in stable.
> That's certainly true for GNUMail's newest release which requires
> Pantomime 1.3.0 and that's not available even in unstable (it's been
> in the NEW queue[0] for a month, waiting for ftpmasters' approval).
>
> [0] https://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
>
>> Do You thing also Testing is stable enought with GNUstep software ?
>
> Well, it depends on your usage pattern and priorities.  Using testing
> is perfectly fine in many scenarios.  Should you decide to switch to
> testing, please note that upgrading is not guaranteed to work, it's
> safer to use the weekly images [1].
>
> [1] https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/
>
>> I thought - and obviously I was wrong - that Debian was more up to
>> date than Ubuntu.
>
> Debian is more up to date than Ubuntu, that's right (with some
> exceptions when Ubuntu do some library transitions in advance).  But
> you switched from Ubuntu's last stable release to Debian's last stable
> release and they are never in sync.  Stretch was released more than a
> year ago so it's natural that the software is older.
>
>> Also, I would like to deal with a lighter install process : no Gnome
>> desktop (no Desktop tasksel), just the basic X server, wmaker and
>> GNUstep apps with a few other (firefox, and so on...) which I did
>> wrappers.
>
> This should be easily doable if you select Expert mode in the Debian
> Installer.
>
>> Maybe I should not backup the GNUstep directory ? Maybe, if I install on
>> Debian again, it is not a matter...
>
> If you install Debian testing, there shouldn't be discrepancies
> because the package versions are (almost) the same in Bionic.  So it's
> likely to work.
>
>> But I need first to understand how the things could work this way. For
>> example, when I use the dockapp wmudmount to mount my USB external
>> drive, the disk icon do not show up on the desktop.
>
> There is no such package, perhaps it was a typo?
>
>> I need to refresh ("Tools/Hide desktop" then "Tools/Show desktop")
>> to see this icon on the desktop of the workspace.
>
> This is probably a GWorkspace bug, could be fixed.
>

Hi Yavor,

Thanks for Your aknowledgement.

Well, I got wmudmount.app [1] from a rpm and converted this app with Alien.
[1] https://www.dockapps.net/wmudmount

It is true that it does not come from Debian repository.
But I did not found a simple way to manage usb disks in the user space.
Maybe I do not the things the right way within GWorkspace. But I did not find a tuto about this.
Is GWorkspace using DBUS messaging between apps and udisks2 ?

About GNUstep user directory, I was speaking about the new one which is cleaner than the older from Ubuntu.
I dropped the Ubuntu one, so my question was about migrating from Debian to Debian (maybe stable to testing)
So what happens when a user want to upgrade : are some sub-directories to conserve, like $HOME/GNUstep/Library and $HOME/GNUstep/Applications and others to be dropped ?

Bye!
Patrick





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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Yavor Doganov-3
В Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:49:43 +0200, Patrick CARDONA написа:

> Maybe I do not the things the right way within GWorkspace.

Or there could be a bug that may be fixed in 0.9.4.  Has this worked
properly on Ubuntu?

> Is GWorkspace using DBUS messaging between apps and udisks2 ?

No but this is a neat idea.

> I dropped the Ubuntu one, so my question was about migrating from Debian
> to Debian (maybe stable to testing)

There should be no problems here.

> So what happens when a user want to upgrade : are some sub-directories
> to conserve, like $HOME/GNUstep/Library and $HOME/GNUstep/Applications
> and others to be dropped ?

You shouldn't worry about it.  Each application should handle its own
defaults and data, if some kind of migration is necessary.


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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Patrick
On 2018-07-24 23:41:08 +0200 Yavor Doganov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> В Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:49:43 +0200, Patrick CARDONA написа:
>
>> Maybe I do not the things the right way within GWorkspace.
>
> Or there could be a bug that may be fixed in 0.9.4.  Has this worked properly
> on Ubuntu?
>

It was the same behaviour.
As I can understand, GWorkspace checks /etc/mtab only when it loads the desktop. So, when I use the workaround (hide and show again the desktop) this works to show the disk icon.
What is strange, is that when I unmount ($ udisksctl unmount -p [device_path]) the disk icon is hidden as expected : so the behaviour is dynamic with unmounting, not at mounting.

>> Is GWorkspace using DBUS messaging between apps and udisks2 ?
>
> No but this is a neat idea.
>
>> I dropped the Ubuntu one, so my question was about migrating from Debian
>> to Debian (maybe stable to testing)
>
> There should be no problems here.
>
>> So what happens when a user want to upgrade : are some sub-directories
>> to conserve, like $HOME/GNUstep/Library and $HOME/GNUstep/Applications
>> and others to be dropped ?
>
> You shouldn't worry about it.  Each application should handle its own
> defaults and data, if some kind of migration is necessary.

Nice !

Well, all my shell scripts are ready now, so I think I will migrate soon.

Bye!
Patrick


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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Riccardo Mottola-5
In reply to this post by Patrick
Hi Patrick,

Patrick CARDONA wrote:

> There is no such package, perhaps it was a typo?
>>> I need to refresh ("Tools/Hide desktop" then "Tools/Show desktop")
>>> to see this icon on the desktop of the workspace.
>> This is probably a GWorkspace bug, could be fixed.
>>
> Hi Yavor,
>
> Thanks for Your aknowledgement.
>
> Well, I got wmudmount.app [1] from a rpm and converted this app with Alien.
> [1] https://www.dockapps.net/wmudmount
>
> It is true that it does not come from Debian repository.
> But I did not found a simple way to manage usb disks in the user space.
> Maybe I do not the things the right way within GWorkspace. But I did not find a tuto about this.
> Is GWorkspace using DBUS messaging between apps and udisks2 ?

Now I understand: you do not see your removable disk on the desktop?

Did you try setting your dynamic mount points with SystemPreferences?
GWorkspace uses NSWorkspace to get that information.
If you have the permissions to "mount" the disk yourself, you can do
that with GWorkspace and then also unmount it by trashing it.

GWorkspace on purpose does not connect with dbus or other daemons
because every OS has its own trick and I did not find a portable way
which also matches GNUstep's base behaviour: actual disk management is
done by NSWorkspace of GNUstep, not GWorkspace... well, almost.

However if you can get it to show later, then something with the file
monitoring is fishy... could need be investigated what exactly is going on.

Riccardo

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Mounting/Unmounting Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Riccardo Mottola-5
In reply to this post by Patrick
Hi Patrick,


Patrick CARDONA wrote:
> It was the same behaviour.
> As I can understand, GWorkspace checks /etc/mtab only when it loads the desktop. So, when I use the workaround (hide and show again the desktop) this works to show the disk icon.
> What is strange, is that when I unmount ($ udisksctl unmount -p [device_path]) the disk icon is hidden as expected : so the behaviour is dynamic with unmounting, not at mounting.

As a first thing, do you have latest gnustep-gui and GWorkspace releases?
I did some clean-up there so that code is centralized in NSWorkspace
(the gnustep class).

I had a look at this and tried to reproduce it on freebsd.
I find it very strange and interesting that unmounting is dynamic and
mounting not.
Do you have mtab and does it get updated? That may explain something,
although I would expect it not to be even used
I don't understand how you can get an unmount notification.

On my system the behaviour, with the mount point set in
SystemPreferences and correct options in /etc/fstab is:
- I can mount a volume in GWorkspace (Check for Disks) and it shows up
on the desktop with the disk icon
- I can unomunt a volume in GWorkspace (drag to Trash) and it unmounts
and also disappears from the desktop
- If I mount or unmount from the command line, I get no updates on the
desktop
- Once mounted from the command line, even calling Check for Disks again
doesn't show the volume

unmounting should trigger
workspaceDidUnmountVolumeAtPath to be called in
https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gworkspace/blob/master/GWorkspace/Desktop/GWDesktopView.m
While mounting:
- (void)newVolumeMountedAtPath:(NSString*)vpath

When the desktop is shown it goes down to:
https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gworkspace/blob/master/GWorkspace/Desktop/GWDesktopView.m
- (void)showMountedVolumes
which as you see goes thorugh NSWorkspace.

[[NSWorkspacesharedWorkspace] mountedRemovableMedia];

It would be nice that "Check for disks" would update and show disks
mounted manually, but it does not. That would be good thing, I want to
check why it doesn't.

Riccardo


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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Riccardo Mottola-5
In reply to this post by Patrick
Hi,

On 2018-07-24 22:24:19 +0000 Patrick CARDONA
<[hidden email]> wrote:


>
> It was the same behaviour. As I can understand, GWorkspace checks
> /etc/mtab
> only when it loads the desktop. So, when I use the workaround (hide
> and show
> again the desktop) this works to show the disk icon.
> What is strange, is that when I unmount ($ udisksctl unmount -p
> [device_path]) the disk icon is hidden as expected : so the behaviour
> is
> dynamic with unmounting, not at mounting.
your description made me suspicious and I spent several hours
debugging the code.
I hope I fixed both yout and my issues.

I ound an additional issue: if a volume is mounted *before* starting
GWorkspace it would not get recognized.

If you like, try the attached patch.
I simplified the code and hopefully fixed it. It relied on wrong
assumptions, I guess. I did not try it with multipme volumes (e.g,
cdrom, usb key, floppy..... multiple USB disks) because I just had one
USB device with me on travel currently.

However, with this code I can mound/unomount from the command line and
see the device appear/disappear.
Parallely, even i the desktop is not showing and a volume gets touched
or mounted before GWorkspace it works.

If you want to test before me committing it, go! I did try mounting on
FreeBSD and not ubuntu and my SystemPreferences is setup fine to mount
automatically, for your information.


Riccardo

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Re: Migrating GNUstep home folder to another computer

Riccardo Mottola-5
Hi Patrick, hi all,


I cleaned up my patch and commited it. It works now very well for me, in
a classic "mount/unount" environment.
Still the mount points need to be indicated so that the checks perform
correctly, /etc/mtab is not sufficient.
It would be nice to improve that situation further.

Riccardo


Riccardo Mottola wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 2018-07-24 22:24:19 +0000 Patrick CARDONA
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> It was the same behaviour. As I can understand, GWorkspace checks
>> /etc/mtab only when it loads the desktop. So, when I use the
>> workaround (hide and show again the desktop) this works to show the
>> disk icon.
>> What is strange, is that when I unmount ($ udisksctl unmount -p
>> [device_path]) the disk icon is hidden as expected : so the behaviour
>> is dynamic with unmounting, not at mounting.
>
> your description made me suspicious and I spent several hours
> debugging the code.
> I hope I fixed both yout and my issues.
>
> I ound an additional issue: if a volume is mounted *before* starting
> GWorkspace it would not get recognized.
>
> If you like, try the attached patch.
> I simplified the code and hopefully fixed it. It relied on wrong
> assumptions, I guess. I did not try it with multipme volumes (e.g,
> cdrom, usb key, floppy..... multiple USB disks) because I just had one
> USB device with me on travel currently.
>
> However, with this code I can mound/unomount from the command line and
> see the device appear/disappear.
> Parallely, even i the desktop is not showing and a volume gets touched
> or mounted before GWorkspace it works.
>
> If you want to test before me committing it, go! I did try mounting on
> FreeBSD and not ubuntu and my SystemPreferences is setup fine to mount
> automatically, for your information.
>
>
> Riccardo
>


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